Eliezer, feminists speak for women in the sense that feminism(s) have the effect of expanding the definition of what it is to be “women” to include the true diversity of people who are biologically female. There are women who are misogynistic and racist on varying levels of virulence, just as there are misogynistic and racist men of all sorts. Anti-racist, anti-sexist women aren’t going to be able to speak for those women anymore than anti-bias men speak for their racist, sexist brethren.
It seems more beneficial to give a list of concrete things that would work to improve the atmosphere of a discussion than to give a list of Don’ts. Even if I knew everything that every woman could possibly find offensive (which I don’t), the list would have to be much longer. Why not address the root of the problem and clear the air that way, instead of dogging at every single problematic instance I can see?
If Robin sinned against you in that thread, then I, myself also a male, cannot see it. And remember that there is a male sex and a female sex, not a wrong sex and a right sex. So it is not that the truth is laid out plainly, and you see it, but we are blind. That is treating us as defective versions of yourself.
Eliezer, I’d hope for better than this for you.
This is a straw man argument, since I never generalized by problems with Robin to the entire male sex. Not once have I taken his behavior and extrapolated conclusions about all men from it. Doing so would actually be a violation of my own feminist beliefs about the diversity of human beings, for cripe’s sake.
If you’d like an example of something that offends me, putting words in my mouth is a good place to start.
Eliezer, feminists speak for women in the sense that feminism(s) have the effect of expanding the definition of what it is to be “women” to include the true diversity of people who are biologically female. There are women who are misogynistic and racist on varying levels of virulence, just as there are misogynistic and racist men of all sorts. Anti-racist, anti-sexist women aren’t going to be able to speak for those women anymore than anti-bias men speak for their racist, sexist brethren.
It seems more beneficial to give a list of concrete things that would work to improve the atmosphere of a discussion than to give a list of Don’ts. Even if I knew everything that every woman could possibly find offensive (which I don’t), the list would have to be much longer. Why not address the root of the problem and clear the air that way, instead of dogging at every single problematic instance I can see?
If Robin sinned against you in that thread, then I, myself also a male, cannot see it. And remember that there is a male sex and a female sex, not a wrong sex and a right sex. So it is not that the truth is laid out plainly, and you see it, but we are blind. That is treating us as defective versions of yourself.Eliezer, I’d hope for better than this for you.
This is a straw man argument, since I never generalized by problems with Robin to the entire male sex. Not once have I taken his behavior and extrapolated conclusions about all men from it. Doing so would actually be a violation of my own feminist beliefs about the diversity of human beings, for cripe’s sake.
If you’d like an example of something that offends me, putting words in my mouth is a good place to start.